ideas for mondays

hey guys for battle companies why dont we all work out our own promotion table then we can sit down and approve them next week. nick im assuming you want elves so you do them nate either dwarfs or harad and ian isengard (as much as that pains me) i will do mordor. here is the original if you need some inspiration.

http://tabletopgeeks.com/lotr-downloads/wp-content/downloads/lotr/LotR-bcrulesredux.pdf

just highlight it and copy and paste it in your web browser. there so you all have your home work.

The link Jimbo posted is a rules update. After hours of searching I have found the actual source material.

http://tabletopgeeks.com/wp-content/downloads/lotr/LotR-bcrules.pdf

That's the main rules supplemented by Jimbo's link. I will spend the week merging it into 1 updated rules book. The following armies are available right now:

Mordor
Gondor
Rohan
Dol-Amroth
Isengard
Harad
Moria
Dwarves
Corsair Fleets

Elves are seemingly a hairy transition, possibly why they weren't included in the first place but Jimbo and I are working on that.

ok, assuming that you have read the rules I've compiled an army list for Galadhrim:

Galadhrim Starting Force:

2 Galadhrim Elves with Elf Bows
2 Galadhrim Elves with Spear and Shield
2 Galadhrim Elves with Elven Blades

Special Rule:

Any mounted hero or warrior is considered to have the Expert Rider special ability

Promotions:

A Wood elf is not promoted like the Galadhrim. a 1-5 is no result. On a 6 they become a Hero

Galadhrim Elves with Elf Blades - Galadhrim Knight

Galadhrim Elves with Elf Bows - Galadhrim Knight with Elf blade and Bow

Galadhrim with Spear and Shield - Galadhrim Guard.

Galadhrim Influence Table:

1-nothing
2-Wood Elf with either Elf Blade, Elf bow, or Wood Elf Spear
3-Galadhrim Warrior with Elf Blade
4-Galadhrim Warrior with Elf Bow
5-Galadhrim Warrior with Spear and Shield
6-Roll on Table Below

1-2-Galadhrim Guard
3-4 Galadhrim Knight (no bow)
5-6 Galadhrim Knight (bow)

Galadhrim Equipment options:

Weapon Cost
Elf Bow 2
Elf Blade 1
Spear 1
Shield 1
Elven Steed (Hero only) 2
Throwing Daggers (wood elf only) 2

Galadhrim Advance Table:

N/A

The Advance Table was included for a sense of completion. Please note that this section is eliminated and replaced by the charts in the updated rules provided by Jimbo. This is by no means a definitive elf Battle Company list but merely a starting point using the other army lists as a template. Note that with the exception of Isengard elves will be outnumbered every game. This will lead them to taking more casualties early and causing fewer in return making upgrading harder to do. Thats why when they do upgrade it seems big.

Where's the Trolls?! No Cave Troll love? Or a band of Mordor Trolls?

Nah those are a wee bit too powerful for this. Your still stuck with those trolls and no way to use them.

Cirith Ungol Battle Company

Starting Force:

2 orc warrior with orc bows

2 orc warrior with 2-handed weapons

2 orc warrior with spears

2 mordor uruk-hai with shields

Promotions:

Orc Warrior with Orc Bow go to Orc Tracker

Mordor Uruk-Hai with Shield go to Black Guard of Barad-Dur

Orc warrior with spear/2-handed weapon go to Morannon orc

Barad-Dur Influence Table:

1-nothing
2-Orc Warrior with Bow
3-Orc Warrior with 2-handed weapon
4-Orc Warrior with Spear
5-Mordor Uruk-Hair with Shield
6-Roll on Table Below

1-2-Orc Tracker
3-4 Morannon Orc
5-6 Black Guard of Barad-Dur

Barad-Dur Equipment options:

Weapon Cost
Orc Bow 1
Two-handed weapon (orc only) 1
Spear 1
Shield 1
Warg (Hero or Orc Tracker only) 2
Throwing Spears (Warg Rider only) 1

Barad-Dur Advance Table:

N/A

that barad dur list seems a little powerful i would use the dol amroth model

2 Mordor Uruk-hai w/shield
2 Orcs w/bow
2 Orcs w/shield
2 Orcs w/spear and
2 Orcs w/2Xhand weapon.

Urk-hai promotes to black guard
Orc bowman to tracker
Orc warriors to Morranon

D6
1 no effect
2 Orc Bow
3 Orc 2xhander
4 Orc Spear
5 Orc Shield
6 Roll bellow

1 Tracker
2-3 Morannon w/shield
4 Uruk-Hai w/2xHander
5 Uruk-Hai w/shield
6 Stalker

it would allow me to use all my stuff at one point in the game plus it sticks to the nature of the Mordor which is Orcs. thats what i like is the variety and a chance to have a varied army. this could use the same equipment list and special rule

For Dwarfs i see

2 Bows
2 2xAxe
3 Shields

Promotion Table

Dwarf Bows to Rangers w/Bow
Dwarf 2XAxe to Khazad Guard
Dwarf Shields to Iron Guard

Influence table

1 no effect
2 Dwarf 2XAxe
3 Dwarf Bow
4 Dwarf Shield
5 choose above
6 Roll below

1-2 Ranger w/bow
3-4 Khazad
5-6 Iron

every thing else would be the same

i'm thinking we take away mounted troops from the reinforcement table. horses can be purchased instead but we limit it to models who can use them in their war gear and open that up to all warriors

here is what i'm thinking for Haradrim

5 Harad Bows
5 Harad Spears

Promotion
Harad Bows to Watcher of Karna
Harad Spear to Serpent Guard

Influence Table
1 no effect
2-3 Harad Spearmen
4-5 Harad Bowman
6 Roll Below

1-2 Serpent Guard
3-4 Watcher
5 Abrakhan Guard
6 Mahud Warrior w/shield

War Gear
blow pipe 2
War Spear 2 (changed from Lance)

abrakhan and Mahud seem to be a different race so promoting a harad warrior to that seems out of sorts.

Horses CAN be bought but its really hard to do so. Horses cost 2 influence DICE not points, and DICE are hard to come by, mainly you have to win to get them or save up your influence points (which you only get 2 a game). Plus only heroes and certain units can buy horses. If you spend all your dice getting horses then your army will never grow. That's why getting horses through promotions is important, and fair since almost everyone gets one in some way. Updating the lists to include new models is one thing but rewriting the charts is another. I'd like to mess with the established lists as little as possible because they were written by the games designers so are definitely balanced.

I agree the Barad-Dur list I originally posted was too much but the one we agreed on earlier is a good balance of troops and upgrades. The one problem with making harad bows watchers is that the watchers Magic Resistance is useless in this game because there's no magic and terror is rare. The dwarf list is fine, I think thats what we talked about earlier. The object of the game isn't to use every model you have in your collection, after all we will be playing other games besides this to use our models. Battle companies by it's very nature doesn't use a lot of different models.*gollum* Patience my love, patience *gollum*

I'm going to make a new post, clean everything up and see if we can get some recruiting done.

the awesome game designers ( yes the same that gave s5 khazad guard 2 handed weapons that you complian so much about) made the list with out the new stuff in mind. i dont care about sticking with their rules i want something unique that we will all enjoy playing. fine we'll keep horsemen in the promotion table but i'm still insisting we modernize the lists and tweake it to our game i mean if we are gonna update dwarf lists then we should do like wise for any that we are utilizing.

like you said most lists should fall between 60 and 70 points and go from there. as usual things have been ommitted from the lists such as do high elves come with heavy armour. its not listed any where nor can it be bought with influence dice. the point system would suggest that yes they should get heavy armour.

we wont be playing this outside of comix zone so there is no need to be anal about particular rules. we just need to come to a consensus on fair rules.

Of course it doesn't say whether or not high elves come with heavy armor, there IS no high elves list. And there's not that many new models out there that require any sort of drastic overhaul. What do you see that's missing? We put in the Iron Guard we put in the Black Guard of Barad-Dur. Watchers aren't nessessary because they have abilities they'll never use and Abrakan guard start with an ability only available to heroes. Whats still missing? Maybe if I know what you mean specifically I can work them in. Wow (not being sarcastic) I actually averaged out the printed armies pts and it comes out to 60 exactly. 70 is too high. The only armies that go above 60 are rohan at 62, dwarves at 61, and Mordor at 66. Gondor is 58, isen 54, and dol-amroth 59.

some armies can get shamans so there is magic. and only heroes can buy horses but they let raiders and lancers and riders of rohan start with them when they are recruited. so some times a warrior will get things normally reserved for heroes. if you read my post i was referring to the elven wargear for high elves not promotions. and im looking at a rivendel list which is high elves i told you i dont care about the old list im using it as a frame for the new battle companies im sick of GW's ambiguities and ommisions. we're updating to include the new stuff once again your overcomplicating things. if you want your list to include the old stuff before the point creep then thats fine i want stuff personalized. thats. the rules they came out with are solid but so much has changed with troops and stats it would be retarded to even play the game.

Lord Jimbo wrote:the rules they came out with are solid but so much has changed with troops and stats it would be retarded to even play the game.

Thats as logical as saying there's no point to playing Nintendo 64 because it doesn't have x-box 360 graphics. The game is not pointless you just want the new models you bought and are getting annoyed because the game doesn't include them. And there are no shamans or magic at all in Battle Company so i don't know where your going there. No actual heroes of any kind from sbg are in this game. Thats actually the point of the game, to build heroes. And there were shamans in sbg when they wrote the white dwarf so if they wanted to include magic they would have. I wanted to play the game as it's written in the rules. Your the one who wants to update all the lists and make new ones and change this and that and do a complete overhaul. So you tell me who's over complicating things? If you keep expanding all the lists your going to make it harder for people to get into the game. The novelty of it was that the rules and tables were simple to follow and all you needed were 2 to 4 types of troops that usually all came in the same box but if you keep putting stuff in that's MORE stuff people have to buy to play the lists they want. And remember, so far this is just you and me bouncing stuff back and forth. We haven't heard from Nate, Bill, Ian, Christian, or that father and son who come in. Who's to say they will or will not like it as it is? All I'm saying is why don't we wait until we get everyone together before we take a machete to this game? And I think I'm having a brain aneurysm so I'm going to bed lol.

your the only guy i know that would to come up with such a stupid analogy. what red blooded american would choose a nintendo 64 over xbox 360. of course someone would choose the latter it has better games and graphics thats why one is still being sold in stores and the other at flea markets.

isengard and mordor both have shamans with transfix and fury.

the current lists may require people to get stuff they dont have and thats my issue. if another player wants to play harad they dont have to use all the models they can make a list that suits them and their collection.

then we can just have two different Battle companies we'll have Nicks and Jim's you can play with their rules and i'll make one with new rules that every one aggrees on. this isn't a game we are gonna travel and play other people in so we have the freedom to change it and make it better. and im not changing the rules im altering the mechanics of the game to make it fresh and interesting. i played the old version and it was lacking things even back then.

I know they both have shamans but they aren't used in Battle Companies. No magic is, thats all I'm saying. And there's more people that would pick Nintendo 64 than you think. Think of all the good games: Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Ogre Battles, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time. But they don't like people straying off topic. We'll figure something out monday. No sense prattling off between the two of us when theres 3 or 4 other people involved.

the isengard and mordor battle companies have shamens. a hero can choose to become a shaman for his special rule as does moria. the first time a hero selects this skill he gets transfix which casts on 5+ the second time he gets fury which casts on a 3+

and N64 sucks

Where are you getting that? It's not in either of the two links. Moria can't upgrade at all. It says it's special rule is that its model cap is 25 instead of 15.

not in the version i have

I am glad to see that people are posting about LOTR on here.

i can talk all day about this stuff

We're half talk half arguing. I thought as much though Jim. I think what you own is the original copy of Battle Companies and what I have is the new edition of Battle Companies. Because if you read the Redux Hero upgrades in the sheet you posted it says that a hero can take the armies special ability instead (in some cases turning them into shamans) of a standard hero upgrade where as the army special abilities in the version I posted are blanket effects such as in the Dol-Amroth list any Warrior of Minas Tirth that gets promoted automatically becomes a Knight of Dol-Amroth as well or dwarf heroes can take 2 armor upgrades instead of one. I think that's where most of the confusion is coming from. The Redux rules are for your edition, mines stand alone. So we'll compare your copy and mine and see which is better off to play.

thats what forums are for arguing um i mean debating. ok we can compare and contrast on monday and take the pieces we like, like i said we'll leave it to the group which they wanna play. honestly most of the stuff im arguing for doesnt even effect me as i plan on going dwarfs (well thats assuming you agree ironguard and rangers should be included). i just wanna make it competittive and interesting and the old rules and lists dont do it for me.

I was going that route for dwarves but lets keep further steps for monday and focus on getting people into the game.