TANKSGIVING

This year's TANKSGIVING is tomorrow, November 14th. Who's in on this?

Um... Me considering I'm your ride

So it's just you and me then?

I would have come but there were going to be apocalypse super heavies which sends ordinary tanks to the ranks of the useless. Were it an actual 40k tank battle I'd have brought 4 people and 35+ tanks but I think that apoc. and regular 40k are an absurd mix. It just screws up the game too much. I brought the greatest number of tanks last year and just got wiped by superheavies and randomly applied templates the size of platters. I played in the planetstrike megabattle and that's the abosolute last time I ever play with superheavies. They just make everything else irrelevant. I'm not the only one who thinks this way either. When I told a few other people about tanksgiving, their first question was whether there will be superheavies. When I told them yes, they rapidly (and vehemently) declined. Too bad really, as I genuinely like megabattles.

There were only 2 super heavies and they were on opposite sides. Also...35+ tanks vs. ANY super heavy outweighs the super heavy. I'm disappointed to see that Super Heavies can intimidate other players into not playing. The idea of Tanksgiving is bring as many vehicles as you can and go at it. Either way it was fun. Thanks to those who did come out.

Mooze wrote:I think that apoc. and regular 40k are an absurd mix. It just screws up the game too much...
...When I told a few other people about tanksgiving, their first question was whether there will be superheavies. When I told them yes, they rapidly (and vehemently) declined.

I agree, ANY combination of "Regular 40K", Apocalypse, Cities of Death, & "Planetstrike are not intended to played in combination on the same table.

But before jumping on a Purity of the Game soapbox, keep in mind "Tanksgiving" is NONE of these for the following reasons:
1st - No point totals. Therefore nothing to keep sides balanced.
"Regular 40K" - No Force organization charts & No non-vehicles (including Monstrous Creatures)
Apocalypse - No Formations, No non-vehicles (including Bio-Titans), No Strategic Assets
Cities of Death & Planetstrike - No special game play rules, No Strategic Assets, and again No
non-vehicles.

Therefore you must go into it without thinking this is a 40K game. because buy its very nature it is not intended to be.

Mooze wrote:I played in the planetstrike megabattle...

I'll stop you right there, and confirm that there were MANY reasons why that event did not turn out as intended. The use of Super Heavies was not even one of the main concerns. Over all there were more positive comments on the event than negative.

Mooze wrote: ...thats the abosolute last time I ever play with superheavies. They just make everything else irrelevant.

That is a fairly ignorant statement.
You cannot make an educated statement on the relevance of a particular unit when you refuse to play against it. You learn from your (and other's) failures More than from your victories!
For the first 2 years I played 40K I NEVER won a game. That was 15 years ago. If I had your, "I'll never play that" attitude, I wouldn't be here today!

More often than not I see Super Heavies fall to under utilized or least expected units.
Believe it or not but individual units of INFANTRY have had the best success rate that I have seen.
(Even in H2H w/Super Walkers)
Most of the battles lost to Super Heavies that I've seen follow the same pattern.
The opponent takes one look at the super Heavy across the table & succumbs to shock value.
They forget the mission objectives, ignores the rest of the opponents army, or even the basics of good strategy.

Take for example the Planetstike Megabattle:
A few players set up a firing line at the main fortification. Although they successfully dumped massive firepower into 2 superheavies they didn't move which also kept them from the objective & made it very difficult for their own reinforcements to enter the field.
There was a player on the Daemon board who almost had the entire board free of enemies for the 1st turn. He was preoccupied with the single Super Heavy on the board that he ignored the 3 empty fortifications that would have given him defendable positions to attack from. Instead they remained empty & with active weapons against him. when the Daemons arrived they were able to claim the fortifications for themselves & make the player's job even harder.

The Super Heavy "Fear Factor" is nothing new. the same thing happened when the Necron Monolith first came out, or the Burna/Battlewagon combo first hit the table.

You don't feel comfortable playing against Super Heavies?
Fine, watch other & see what they do. Or what they DON'T do. Then ask yourself how can I make that work for my army. Or, How can I avoid the same trap.

Another option is play against JUST a Super Heavy.
There is a mission in White Dwarf issue that puts a split 1000 point army (1/2 on table, 1/2 reserve), against a single Ork Stompa which has to walk the long distance off the table.
Or,
get to know them by BEING them. Find someone willing (like Me), who will let you borrow or Proxy a Super Heavy for a battle, just so you can learn its weaknesses.

You nailed it Brian. Super Heavy Vehicles are just part of the game in tanksgiving. Also when it came to the Planetstrike Battle you are deadon there as well.

When I asked how many people showed up for tanksgiving the answer I got was "three". Well thought out, organized and fun games are generally well attended 'nuff said.
I've played 40K for a long time and I never minded the odd forgeworld super heavy but with the apoc rules they are ridiculous. Additionally, I can't help but see them as an extension of the WAAC mindset. If that's how you play and have fun with it then enjoy it. There are people who see the apoc tanks as a fine addition to the game. For myself, I think that anything that destructive and durable just stinks. I don't play my warriors of chaos in WHFB precisely because they are absurd in their power and durability. I don't need to win that badly. I don't play tournaments for the same reason, WAAC players (and if you aren't a WAAC player in a tourney then you aren't really playing) aren't fun to play with.
I remember that super on the daemon board, as I recall, you weren't allowed to shoot through the portal onto the daemon board but later in the game the super was allowed to shoot out (lovely flexibility in the application of a rule). I miss the GW store and it's megabattles (when Jay ran it) they were straightforward and fun and lacked a series of "special" rules invented for the day. Additionally, they never mixed games (there were less to mix). They were always well attended.

Well thought out, organized and fun games are generally well attended 'nuff said.

I agree completely.

However, (Tanksgiving) not being an O-Zone sponsored event; Papa Nurgle, The Overseer & Myself, have No say over how the staff of any gaming location promote their own events.
The best I can do is to make the O-Zone Events forum accessible to the promoters of those locations & inform club members of events after I find out.

If you can think of additional ways to promote club & Non-club sponsored events I am more than willing to take suggestions.

I can't help but see them (Super Heavies) as an extension of the WAAC mindset.

I can easily see that. And in some cases you are right. In the right, "or Wrong" hand a Super Heavy could easily be abused by a WAAC or "Meta" player.
Most of the WAAC players I have seen, Avoid Super Heavies like the plague. The are unwilling to "throw away" a 3rd or more of their points on a single model, when more battle proven & cheaper alternatives are available.
I too avoid WAAC players as much as possible & never play in tournaments that don't include Sportsmanship as a major criteria for judges.

To me this is a HOBBY not a Competition! I'm in it for the fun not the win.
To me New experiences & challenges ARE Fun. (As long as the other players goal is also fun)
A WAAC player will tell you, "you're playing wrong" if you aren't in it to win it.
But if we are wrong, then why is it that they are the ones that get upset with the game more than anyone else?

the daemon board, as I recall, you weren't allowed to shoot through the portal onto the daemon board but later in the game the super was allowed to shoot out

Incorrect, shots to & from the Daemon board could ONLY be made through the Portal.
Shots were NOT allowed to travel across the open space between boards onto the Daemon Board UNLIKE the other boards.
The portal was the size of the Short Table edge of the Daemon board & Normal LOS applied.

I miss the GW store and it's megabattles (when Jay ran it) they were straightforward and fun and lacked a series of "special" rules invented for the day. Additionally, they never mixed games (there were less to mix). They were always well attended.

You must not have gone to may of them.
I was there from the beginning. Events under Jay's watch was just as spotty as any other location I have ever gamed.
No predetermined rules (even after discussing it with him & other staff members).
40k mega-battles with BFG mixed in.
Events with last turn rule changes altering the outcome of the event.
Tank only battles including... Pre-Apoc Super Heavy Tanks from Forgeworld

I will admit The GW store did know how to promote up coming events better than anywhere I've known before or since. As well as keeping the WAAC players at bay. (But that was also before GW introduced the "Ard Boyz Tourney" So they have added to the problem too).
But I think you are looking at the past through Rose colored glasses.

I didn't play at the GW store, therefore I have no point of reference. I only know what we are trying to do with the club as a whole. We are trying to promote a fun environment for everyone. One of the things we set out to do was run official GW events. With the 13's campaign, we did just that. I welcome advise and criticism. It helps us build a better club for all of you involved. However, to sit there complaining does no good for ANYONE. It demoralizes people and makes the game NOT FUN. I tell everyone...if there is something that you want to see us do, TELL US. We are happy to try and accomodate if we have the time. With the new year, there is a lot that we hope to do. We didn't set out to start this club because we like the attention. We started the club to bring people together to collectively enjoy the game.

Mooze, I have met you on the battle field and I respect your opinions. I would encourage you to take a more proactive part in the club. If you see something you don't like, FIX IT. Take an active role rather than sit on the sidelines saying why you DIDN'T play. Not every event is for everyone. I understand that. I just don't want people discouraged.

Thank you.

I have absolutely no problem running events that people want to see. I have said, time and time again, that if you want to see an event, let me know. I have also let people run their own events in the past. The thing is, very few people have taken advantage of this. All of you guys know that I am pretty much open to whatever you guys want to do (with in reason) and am willing to listen and work with you on it. Plus, as you well know, I also have the backing of GW, in some cases I can get whatever is needed from them. I am also open to changing events already set up (except for tournaments). For example, if there is a megabattle set up and you guys want to change it up and do something else or run it a different way, I am all for it (with in reason of course). All my events for GW are planned 6 months in advance (for White Dwarf) so if you think of something you want to see or if you want to run something yourself, you have to let me know. Also, I am open to criticism on my events. If you don't like an event, absolutely loved it or have an idea to make it better, I am open to suggestion. You all know that you can talk to me personally, call the store to talk to me, send a pm on here, send me an email, send smoke signals, a carrier pidgeon etc. I am here to help make this gaming community the best and strongest it can be and for everybody to have fun in doing so. Thanks.

- Mike
Comix Zone Gaming Manager
comixzone.gaming@gmail.com
(315) 452-1037

By the way, I am ABSOLUTELY certain that 35+ tanks can take down a super heavy without a problem.

I must say that a lot of people did not know of TANKSGIVING well enough in advance. I found out the day before or I would have been there. Mooze if you don't like super heavies then don't play in events that include them. As Mike has said he is willing and open to suggestions. I personally could care less what people use. Heck every one was complaining about knob bikers for awhile now nobody is playing them because everyone figured out how to beat it. IG, Space Marine and Chaos Marine Tank/ Armor are all the rage right now. I am sure when the Tyranid book comes out in January there will be something tough in that. People are not complaining about it as it is PART OF THE GAME. You just need to learn to deal with what is in front you, adapt and overcome. If you cannot it does not say much for you as a tactician. I know that 35 tanks will take out one or two super-heavies without a problem. Heck If I saw 35 tanks vs my one super-heavy I would already know the outcome of I am going to blow up soon

Who's intimidated by Super Heavies? You don't even need 35+ tanks to do it. If I can make a Chaos Plague Spitter or what ever it was Explode instantly with a single pansy Fire Dragon then a tank from a less.....fairy......army should do the trick. I would have come to Tanksgiving but I had to work. Would have been fun.

and if KEEBLER can do it, SO CAN YOU!

I seem to recall that it was Don, not Jay who introduced a lot of the odd late in the game rules (plague zombies magically appearing in a trench full of snipers (eldar and space marine scouts) who were, up to that point, doing quite well.)
I love megabattles, both 40k and WHFB, and would drive the 55 mile round trip to play in them if they merely adhered to one game. I don't play apocalypse (It always seemed a ploy to sell lots of expensive tank models although, come to think of it, there aren't really any inexpensive tank models.) but I do play 40k. If there is a plain old 40k megabattle or planetstrike mission I'm game. But I don't see the point in mixing the two. I'd play more there if it weren't so far (and if I had the time) because there are a lot of damned nice people who play there. Even if I felt the game turned out a total goat-hump the people are still fine. It seems that there is plenty of game to be had without the mix. Apoc. rules were written for apoc. An apt comparison: you are playing a late Roman army in warhammer historical rules. Then the host allows his brother to introduce his warriors of chaos (nurglite or khornate, of course) complete with rules from WHFB. This will not take long.You will not enjoy this.
Why not just play apoc. as apoc.? If my budget allowed for a pile o' tanks I'd likely give it a go, but I've way too many little plastic dudes that I don't often use as it is. I have 4000 points of orks I have almost never used and way too much SM stuff (space marine, not whips and chains, you can always find time to use the whips and chains). This hobby has a habit of getting way out of hand.

When were Apocalypse, Planet Strike, and Standard 40k mixed together into one game exactly? I know during the Lucky 13's the different missions switched back and forth between all sorts of things but they were never mixed and that was determined by GW not anyone at the store. I've never seen a host abuse any power at CZ and maybe I read the posts wrong but I don't see how bringing up past incidents will do anyone any good. That was then, this is now. But what do I know, I just bake cookies lol.

Tread-Marked Avatar wrote:When were Apocalypse, Planet Strike, and Standard 40k mixed together into one game exactly? I know during the Lucky 13's the different missions switched back and forth between all sorts of things but they were never mixed and that was determined by GW not anyone at the store. I've never seen a host abuse any power at CZ and maybe I read the posts wrong but I don't see how bringing up past incidents will do anyone any good. That was then, this is now. But what do I know, I just bake cookies lol.

Mooze is referring to the one big MEGA Battle we ran...where there were Bastions and Planet Strike Rules in effect...but there were also Super Heavies and Apocalypse rules in effect. If I remember correctly, that battle was meant to usher in Planet Strike.

Mooze wrote: I have 4000 points of orks I have almost never used and way too much SM stuff (space marine, not whips and chains, you can always find time to use the whips and chains). This hobby has a habit of getting way out of hand.

On this I am a walking example with all of the stuff I got:
8000 - 10000 points Nids
7700 points of Orks
5000 points of Daemons
3000 points of Space Marine(who I have never ever played and probably never will)
1800 points of Chaos Space Marines (maybe more I have not gone through everything)
4000 points of Tomb Kings
Also take into account all the crap I have that I still have not even touched.

If that's all painted you are sick... truly sick.

Oh, I remember that Mega Battle. If I recall correctly everything was Planet Strike sans Super Heavies wasn't it? I thought that the inclusion of Super Heavies for 5 strategim points was actually part of Planet Strike. I stand corrected. It was a Plague Tower, a Stompa, and a Chaos War Hound Titan vs a Shadow Sword right? I didn't see anything wrong with that battle.

Mooze wrote:If that's all painted you are sick... truly sick.

I almost have all the daemons painted
60% of the Nids
1% of the orks