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House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

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House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  dswanick on Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:04 am

Str D weapons in 4th Edition used the rules for Heavy Blast and Ordnance Blast -
Heavy Blast weapons rolled to hit using BS, and on a 'miss' had no effect.
Ordnance Blast weapons rolled using the scatter die and 1d6, minimizing the chances of affecting units nearby the target.
In both cases, Str D were less likely to hit and damage units other than the chosen target. With the advent of 5th Edition and the change to how Blast weapons work, Str D weapons have become stronger both in terms of always hitting something and the chances of scattering onto nearby units.

My proposed change would be that when firing a Str D weapon, place and scatter the Blast Marker as normal for 5th Edition but before assessing the damage roll 'to-hit' for each shot the weapon fires. Then assess damage to units under the tamplate for only the shots that 'hit'.

So a Warlord's Turbolaser (Str D, Heavy 3, 5" Blast) would place the 5" Blast Marker over the selected target and scatter it 2d6" as normal for 5th Ed. Then roll to-hit using the fires BS 3 times, hitting any units under the template once for each hit.


Last edited by dswanick on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  Azel RavenWood on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:02 pm

So basicly we scatter to see if the templet is over a unit after which we roll a dice to see if we actually hit the unit?
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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  dswanick on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:24 pm

As opposed to scattering each of the three shots in the above example, and potentially dispersing shots over five or six units - yeah.

The only reason I suggest this approach over roll to-hit then roll scatter is I'm trying to avoid the confusion of "I hit twice, how many templates am I scattering again?" Smile

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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  Brian_Horton on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:36 am

Two different things to do with this:\
1. Treat it as if it was a barrage style. One scatter and flop off of that.
2. Treat it just like it is written. 3 different scatters.

I think the 3 scatters is the best option as it best describes the flying off of 3 different shots.

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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  GrimsAxe on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:13 am

There is yet another alternative.

If the Club wants to we could adopt the change to the scatter rule as it appears in the UNOFFICIAL "leaked 6th edition rules" which seem to solve both problems.


Roll to hit as normal. If the roll is successful, the marker stays in place.
To represent that the large area affected by the shot means it’s going to be very hard to miss completely, the marker is not discarded if you roll a miss. The shot may not land exactly where it was intended to, but it hits
somewhere.

Roll the scatter dice to see where the shot lands. The marker is shifted in the direction
shown by the arrow (either the small arrow on the HIT symbol or the large arrow) a number of
inches equal to twice the result of the roll to hit.

For example, a BS4 Space Marine fires a frag missile on a moving infantry unit and rolls a 2 to
hit. The shot misses its target and the blast is moved 4” in the direction indicated by the scatter
dice.

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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  Azel RavenWood on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:09 am

GrimsAxe wrote:There is yet another alternative.

If the Club wants to we could adopt the change to the scatter rule as it appears in the UNOFFICIAL "leaked 6th edition rules" which seem to solve both problems.


Roll to hit as normal. If the roll is successful, the marker stays in place.
To represent that the large area affected by the shot means it’s going to be very hard to miss completely, the marker is not discarded if you roll a miss. The shot may not land exactly where it was intended to, but it hits
somewhere.

Roll the scatter dice to see where the shot lands. The marker is shifted in the direction
shown by the arrow (either the small arrow on the HIT symbol or the large arrow) a number of
inches equal to twice the result of the roll to hit.

For example, a BS4 Space Marine fires a frag missile on a moving infantry unit and rolls a 2 to
hit. The shot misses its target and the blast is moved 4” in the direction indicated by the scatter
dice.

That actually makes sense. In short if we hit it stays were it is and if we miss it moves but can still hit something.

The only problem that i see is that if your bs is really good you have a lower percentage of missing and that would mean you would near always hit which would just destroy some srmies outright.


Last edited by Azel RavenWood on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Needed to put more stuff down.)
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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  GrimsAxe on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:12 pm

Using just this rule as it stands that is true.
But another section introduces, "Evasion" which affects shooting based on size & speed of target.

I figured if you were ONLY looking to alter the way it is used for Apocalypse it wouldn't be TOO unbalanced.

For those interested; here is the info on Evasion as well:

The size and the speed of a target are huge factors when it comes to taking aim with a ranged weapon.
Even the lousiest marksman can hit an immobile battle tank in front of him. If he misses nonetheless it is most likely due to a jammed weapon or a non-starter.
Smaller creatures like Tyranid Rippers or Gretchins are a different beast and are far more challenging to hit, even if they come in great numbers. The real challenge is to hit a small, yet fast moving target.
Even for the best shooters in the game, it is more likely to miss than to hit a moving jetbike that evades the incoming fire with stunning jinks. The only hope to get a good shot at a fast target is to come close and shoot at point blank range.


Evasion is a characteristic that can change during the course of the game.
You have to determine it every time the unit is fired on.
The higher the EV, the harder the target is to hit.

To determine the EV, start with a base value of 3 and apply the following modifiers.

Massive: EV is modified by -1.
Tanks, walkers, monstrous and gargantuan creatures, super-heavies and fortifications are all massive.

Stationary: EV is modified by -1.
Units that remained stationary in its last Movement phase, Stunned and Immobile units apply this modifier as
well, even if they have moved. Note that Consolidations do not count as movement.

Jink: EV is modified by +1.
Some exceptionally fast or dodgy units like bikes and fast skimmers are even harder to hit than normal moving squads. The unit must consists exclusively of models with the Jink special rule.

Swarm: EV is modified by -1.
Swarms are exceptionally hard to hit. The unit must contain only models with this trait.

Example A stationary Space Marine Dreadnought is shot at. The walker suffers the -1 modifiers for
massive and stationary units. It has an EV of 1 against this shooting (3 - 1 - 1 = 1).

A moving Eldar falcon, both a tank and a fast skimmer, has EV 3, as it receives the +1 jink and -1 massive modifiers (3 + 1 - 2 = 3).

Flyer: EV = 6
Due to their high speed flyers have always an EV of 6 that is not further modified.

Point blank range: EV = 3 or less.
When being targeted at point blank range even the fastest creature cannot dodge the shots. To represent this, the EV of a unit is never better than 3 if the squad leader of the firing unit is within 12” of the target unit.

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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  Brian_Horton on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:51 pm

The "leaked" RULES WERE PROVEN FAKE BY THE WAY. I think we should stick with the 5th edition rules as written on this one. 3 different scatters after trying it it seemed to be the best overall.

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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  Azel RavenWood on Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:11 am

Without caring that the EV is fake or not....is it like a save or would it be something like nightfighting...were you have to roll something spacific to actually hit your opponent.
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Re: House Rule discussion - Str D weapons

Post  dswanick on Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:24 am

I'm not sure I want to layer on to much added complexity. We can play Str D the standard 5th Ed way for now, and if everyone is comfortable with the results we don't need to change anything. This is something we can discuss in more detail as we build up more experience's with the game (and may become moot if/when 6th Ed gets released).

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